Well, it really seems that we have been moving through very different environments. For example, I found more often managers demanding tests and TDD, rather than developers willing to do it correctly. I even recall one "Tech Lead" saying that his team was doing TDD because "they tested things manually after implementation".

I was stunned when you said, about cleaning: "this will get you in trouble if not fired". I imagine a system without tests, full of technical debt, and people afraid of so fragile system. But no, it does not seem to be the case. It just seems a control over the work, judging if the deliverable adjusts to what is expected. That is awful, and can become a negative feedback loop very quickly. Without being able, not even to apply the minimum "Boy Scout Rule" (Leave the "campsite" cleaner than you found it, low impact) to the code (as Sean comments), the project will become unbearable in no time.

And maybe there is one point that is causing friction, that is the word "Refactor". In my case, I mean "cleaning", not "rebuilding". It is trying to find the minimal amount of change that will make things easier to change the next time. I also have been —and I am— in projects of mostly all technical debt, and there is no way of tackling the whole refactor. So, I simply learned to clean just the minimal amount to accelerate the current development.

Thanks a lot, Amy. It took a bit to answer, but it is always nice to read you.